33 replies to this topic

[HGAK47]

Hello there wonderful community I have a small question that I would like to gauge opinions on -

How do you feel about PPC`s turning off stealth armour on hit? Fair, unfair, mixed opinions?

Edited by HGAK47, 13 March 2018 - 10:48 AM.

[Trenchbird]

It's a good thing. It allows Stealth Armor to be nullified, and not everyone mounts PPCs anymore anyways, so it leaves Stealth Armor in the same boat as LRMing; Good in certain situations, countered with a specific piece of equipment, and easy to counter if someone has two brain cells to rub together.

Except it's not overused by morons saying that it's good because this one time they got a match with 1 kill and 1,000 damage, so I don't feel as awful about using it.

Edited by Catten Hart, 13 March 2018 - 10:58 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Indifferent.
Imo stealth armor is a gimmick that I rarely encounter (usually the occasional PB and more rarely an Enforcer). Frankly, but for the Warhawks and Panthers and a smattering of Sad Cats being forced off of the shelves via the current event I don’t see PPC’s that often either. So allowing these two systems of marginal significance to interact in the manner of PPC’s temporarily countering ECM is just not something I can get worked up over either way.

[nehebkau]

No need, really. Stealth armor has many drawbacks of its own, crit slots, no heat dissipation, unable to 'dorito' enemy targets and inability to use/activate nodes of any kind.

Basically stealth armor is in the game to punish the people who don't pay attention in game -- and they should be punished.

Against any marginally skilled player stealth-armor is a drawback to have on your mech.

Edited by nehebkau, 13 March 2018 - 11:00 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Stealth needs ECM to work, PPC's of all flavours effect ECM..

PPC's should cause stealth armour to fail..

[mogs01gt]

Its straight forward, PPC's counter ECMs.

[Escef]

Caught me off guard first time it happened, but I don't have any issues with it. Now that the newtech has settled in, you don't see folks experimenting with the new PPCs anymore, and with PPC & Gauss being GH linked, people tend to use LPLs instead of PPCs with their goose waffles. So, yeah, not an issue most of the time, and it's fair when it does crop up.

[Khobai]

ecm shouldnt even grant stealth in the first place

[naterist]

i feel like thats a bad idea. your already using up some tonnage and a lot of crits for the stealth armour to do a not really useful thing, why gimp it more?

[Khobai]

Quote

i feel like thats a bad idea. your already using up some tonnage and a lot of crits for the stealth armour to do a not really useful thing, why gimp it more?

stealth armor should still grant stealth obviously

ecm shouldnt though

when stealth armor is turned on it should stealth you at all ranges.

but ecm shouldnt grant stealth on its own. its not supposed to.

in other words, equipping stealth armor should be the only way to get stealth.


things ecm should do:
-disable electronic systems like artemis/narc/bap/etc...
-increase time to get detailed sensor info
-double missile lockon time
-cut off enemy mechs from sharing sensor information
-create fake radar contacts in ghost mode

things ecm shouldnt do:
-give stealth
-prevent missiles from locking on


as for PPCs temporarily disabling stealth armor. I think thats fine. Since ECM is required for stealth armor to function, anything that disables ECM should also logically disable stealth armor.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Khobai, on 13 March 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

ecm shouldnt even grant stealth in the first place

Well a mech can't be stealthed, it's completely the wrong shape, it's just a game mechanic.

Even stealthed , ships, aircraft do not become invisible to the naked eye.

[Khobai]

Cathy, on 13 March 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Well a mech can't be stealthed, it's completely the wrong shape, it's just a game mechanic.

Even stealthed , ships, aircraft do not become invisible to the naked eye.

were not talking about harry potter invisibility cloaks.

were talking about being invisible to sensors.

stealth armor should be the only thing in the game that makes you invisible to sensors.

ECM shouldnt make you invisible to sensors. however ECM should prevent enemy sensor sharing and it should have a third mode called ghost mode that creates fake radar contacts.

the whole reason information warfare sucks is because PGI has equipment doing things it shouldnt do, and not doing the things it should.

like why does BAP cancel ECM? that makes no sense. BAP is supposed to be for detecting enemies through buildings/terrain without LoS, which it doesnt do in MWO. BAP should also come with seismic sensor probes that you can drop into the ground to detect enemies.

this all comes out of the battletech rule books...

maybe if PGI actually read the rulebooks and made things do what theyre supposed to, their game would be better.

Edited by Khobai, 13 March 2018 - 12:57 PM.

[Water Bear]

I'm OK with that. If you can find a stealth'd mech and actually hit it with a PPC, you deserve to get something for your trouble.

[evilauthor]

Khobai, on 13 March 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

like why does BAP cancel ECM? that makes no sense. BAP is supposed to be for detecting enemies through buildings/terrain without LoS, which it doesnt do in MWO. BAP should also come with seismic sensor probes that you can drop into the ground to detect enemies.

this all comes out of the battletech rule books...

Wait... doesn't BAP counter ECM in the TT Game? At least as far as the sensors of the BAP equipped mech go?

Also, creating ghost contacts would be really fun to use in MWO. "Hey, guys! The enemy team is over there!" *rounds corner to see only one mech*

[Escef]

Khobai, on 13 March 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

ECM shouldnt make you invisible to sensors.

That is literally what ECM is designed to do.

[Mystere]

naterist, on 13 March 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

i feel like thats a bad idea. your already using up some tonnage and a lot of crits for the stealth armour to do a not really useful thing, why gimp it more?

You were hit by a weapon that is the equivalent of an EMP projectile.

Don't get hit by PPCs.

[SeventhSL]

I think PPC countering ECM and by extension Stealth is a great mechanic.

There is a lot of things I'd change in regards to info war related mechanics but this isn't one of them.

[Trenchbird]

Khobai, on 13 March 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

this all comes out of the battletech rule books...

maybe if PGI actually read the rulebooks and made things do what theyre supposed to, their game would be better.

It's obvious you haven't either, frankly-or at least care about "lore" as little as you say they do. Considering BAPs have never dropped probes in tabletop. The word you're looking for is the Remote Sensor Dispenser. The actual piece of equipment that does something similar to what you described BAP as doing.

Also, the BAP is capable of detecting; Powered-Down Vehicles, Camouflaged units, infantry. The BAP unit can detect that it is being jammed, but it cannot completely cut through the ECM signal to find the source; So you are half correct in that BAP doesn't detect ECM, but the pilot can make an educated guess about being in an ECM bubble.

ECM also isn't cancelled out by NARC like it is in-game. ECM does, however, nullify NARC bonuses (On tabletop) and nullify Artemis IV/V systems entirely. It does not affect Targcomps or TAG. Things it does in game; Cause a failure to infoshare. Yes, it actually does that. Prevent long-range infolocks and drastically lengthen time-to-lock for missiles; Functionally similar to the tabletop's ability to hinder missile targeting systems of the Artemis variety.

As for Stealth? Aside from the complete disruption of HUD icons, it's pretty accurate to Tabletop; The unit forces ECM effects upon itself and generates heat, in order to reduce detection signature/combat signature. ECM is used as a supplement to Stealth Armor, and is required for it to properly function.

However, there is precedent for partially MWO-style BAPs in Tabletop; The Bloodhound Active Probe can detect ECM'ed units, providing they are not using the upgraded Angel ECM.

Edited by Catten Hart, 13 March 2018 - 04:25 PM.

[Grus]

wait... they dont?

[PocketYoda]

Everything should disable stealth armor.. its getting hit taking damage stealth armor should fail at a point.